Posts by William Penwell

The bond between family members can be very strong. This brings a test upon a Christian when a marriage mate, a child, a parent, or another close relative is disfellowshipped or has disassociated himself from the congregation. (Matt. 10:37) How should loyal Christians treat such a relative? Does it make a difference if the person lives in your household? First, let us review what the Bible says on this subject. the principles of which apply equally to those who are disfellowshipped and to those who disassociate themselves.

2 "Now to Treat Expelled Ones:

God's Word commands Christians not to keep company or fellowship with a person who has been expelled from the congregation: "Quit mixing in eompan,y with anyone called a brother that is a fornicator or a greedy person or an idolater or a re viler or a drunkard or an extortioner, not even eating with such a man.... Remove the wicked man from among yourselves." (1 Cor.5:11, 13) Jesus' words recorded at Matthew 18:17 also bear on the matter: "Let [the expelled one] be to you just as a man of the nations and as a tax collector." Jesus' hearers well knew that the Jews of that day had no fraternization with Gentiles and that they shunned tax collectors as outcasts. Jesus was thus instructing his followers not to associate with expelled ones.--See The Watchtower of September 15, 1981. pages 18-20.

3 This means that loyal Christians do not have spiritual fellowship with anyone who has been expelled from the congregation. But more is involved. God's Word states that we should 'not even eat with arch a man.' (1 Cor. 5:11) Hence, we also avoid social fellowship with an expelled person. 'this would rule out joining him in a picnic, party, or trip to the shops or theatre or sitting down to a meal with him either in the home or at a restaurant.

4 What about speaking with a disfellowshipped person? While the Bible does not cover every possible situation, 2 John 10 helps us to get Jehovah's view of matters: "If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, never receive him into your homes or say a greeting to him." Commenting on this, The Watchtower of September 15.1981, page 25, says: "A simple'Hello' to someone can be the first step that develops into a conversation and maybe even a friendship- Would we want to take that first step with a disfellowshiped person?"

5 Indeed, it is just as page 31 of the same issue of The Watchtower states: "The fact is that when a Christian gives himself over to sin and has to be disfellowshiped. he forfeits much: his approved standing with God; . . . sweet fellowship with the brothers, including much of the association he had with Christian relatives."

6

1n the Immediate Household: Does this mean that Christians living in the same household with a disfellowshipped family member are to avoid talking to, eating with, and associating with that one as they go about their daily activities? The Watchtower of April 15, 1991, in the footnote on page 22, states: - If in a Christian's household there is a disfellowshipped relative, that one would still be part of the normal, dayto-day household dealings and activities." Thus, it would be left to members of the family to decide on the extent to which the disfellowshipped family member would be included when eating or engaging in other household activities. And yet, they would not want to give brothers with whom they associate the impression that everything is the same as it was before the disfellowshipping occurred

7 However, Pie Walchtolrer of September 15, 1981, page 28, points out regarding the disfellowshipped or disassociated person: "Former spiritual ties have been completely severed. This is true even with respect to his relatives, including those within his immediate family circle.... That will mean changes in the spiritual fellowship that may have existed in the home. For example, if the husband is disfellowshiped, his wife and children will not be comfortable with him conducting a family Bible study or leading in Bible reading and prayer. It he wants to say a prayer, such as at mealtime. lie has a right to do so in his own home. But they can silently offer their own prayers to God. (Prov. 28:9; Ps. 119:145, 146) What if a disfellowshiped person in the home wants to be present when the family reads the Bible together or has a Bible study? The others might let him be present to listen if he will not try to teach them or share his religious ideas."

8 " If a minor child living in the home is disfellowshipped, Christian parents are still responsible for his upbringing. The Walchlou?er of November 15, 1988, page 20, states: "Just as they will continue to provide hitn with food, clothing, and shelter, they need to instruct and discipline him in line with God's Word. (Proverbs 6:20-22; 29:17) Loving parents may thus arrange to have a home Bible study with him, even if he is disfellowshipped. Maybe he will derive the most corrective benefit from their studying with him alone. Or they may decide that he can continue to share in the family study arrangement."-See also The Watchtower of October 1, 2001, pages 16-17.

9

Relatives Not in the Household: "The situation is different if the disfellowshipped or disassociated one is a relative living outside the immediate family circle and home," states The Watchtower of April 15, 1988, page 28. "It might be possible to have almost no contact at all with the relative. Even if there were some family mat ters requiring contact, this certainly would be kept to a minimum," in harmony with the divine injunction to "quit mixing in company with anyone" who is guilty of sinning unrepentantly. (1 Cor. 5:11) Loyal Christians should strive to avoid needless association with such a relative, even keeping business dealings to an absolute minitntun. See also The Wat ehtoirer of September 15, 1981, pages 29-30.

10

The Walchtower addresses another situation that can arise: "What if a close relative, such as a son or a parent who does not live in the home, is disfellowshiped and subsequently wants to move back there? The family could decide what to do depending on the situation. For example, a disfellowshiped parent may be sick or no longer able to care for himself financially or physically. The Christian children have a Scriptural and moral obligation to assist. (1 Tim. 5:8) ... What is done may depend on factors such as the parent's true needs, his attitude and the regard the head of the household has for the spiritual welfare of the household." The Watchtower of September 15, 1981, pages 28-9.

11" As for a child, the same article continues: "Sometimes Christian parents have accepted back into the home for a time a disfellowshiped child who has become ptnysically , or emotionally ill. But in each case the parents can weigh the individual circumstances. Has a disfellowshiped son Lived on his own, and is he now unable to do so? Or does he want to move back primarily because it would be an easier life'? What about his morals and attitude? Will he bring 'leaven' into the home?-Gal. 5:9.

12 "

Benefits of Being Loyal to Jehovah: Co operating with the Scriptural arrangement to disfellowship and shun unrepentant wrongdoers is beneficial. It preserves the cleanness of the congregation and distinguishes us as upholders of the Bible's high moral standards. (1 Pet. 1:1416) It protects us from corrupting intluences. (Gal. 5:7-9) It also affords the wrongdoer an opportunity to benefit fully from the discipline re ceived, which can help him to produce "peaceable fruit, namely, righteousness."- Heb. 12:11.

13 "After hearing a talk at a circuit assembly, a brother and his fleshly sister realized that they needed to make adjustments in the way they treated their mother, who lived elsewhere and who had been disfellowshipped for six years. Immediately after the assembly, the man called his mother. and after assuring her of their love, he explained that they could no longer talk to her unless there were important family matters requiring contact. Shortly thereafter. his mother began attending meetings and was eventually reinstated. Also. her unbelieving husband began studying and in time was baptized.

14 ' Loyally upholding the disfellowshipping arrangement outlined in the Scriptures demonstrates our love for Jehovah and provides an answer to the one that is taunting Him. (Prov. 27: 11) In turn, we can be assured of Jehovah's blessing. King David wrote regarding Jehovah: "As for his statutes, I shall not turn aside from them. With someone loyal you will act in loyalty."-2 Sam. 22:23, 26.

1. What situation can test a Christian's loyalty?

2. According to the Bible, how are Christians to treat those expelled from the congregation?

3, 4. What. sort of fellowship with disfellowshipped and disassociated people is forbidden?

5. When disfellowshipped, what does a person forfeit?

6. Is a Christian required to cut off all association with a disfellowshipped relative living in the same household? Fxplain.

7. How does spiritual fellowship within the home change when a family member is disfellowshipped?

8. What responsibility do Christian parents have toward a minor disfellowshipped child living in the home?

9. To what extent should a Christian have contact with a disfellowshipped relative living outside the home?

10, 11. What will a Christian consider before allowing a disfellowshipped relative to move into the home'?

12. What are some benefits of the disfellowshipping arrangement?

13. What actjustment did one family make, and with what result?

14. Why should we loyally support the disfellowshippin(( arrangement?

18

Will Bill Bowen Be Disfellowshipped Wednesday

by Kenneson in

jw
friends

the watchtower just doesn't get it.

they won't be satified until they disfellowship bill.

another hearing is scheduled for wednesday.

William Penwell

What do you expect with a with a group of people that are still living in the 19 century. The old tried and proved tactics will not work in this 21 century. They will try and fail miserably.

Will

19

KM- Disfellowshipped Relative 8/02

by WildTurkey in

jw
friends

.

edited by - wildturkey on 20 july 2002 13:59:47.

William Penwell

Yes I just read it. Typical double speak BS from the WT. What I would like to know is why they go to the extermes of writting a 2 page article when it could be said in one sentence. "No you can't do that"??

Will

18

Invent some problems for JW's

by sleepy in

jw
friends

lets invent some problem for jw's to see how far you can take their rules.

1.siamese twins get baptised.one now get disfellowshipped for apostacy.the witness one ,get counceled by the elders for mixing with apostates.eventualy gets disfellowshipped for too much assosiation with apostate other half.

2.man has sex change, but then becomes witness.is he a brother or a sister?

William Penwell

Farkel

Here is another dilemma for you. If you were a brother and had a sex change to a sister, would it be scripturally OK to play with your own boobs???

Will

18

Invent some problems for JW's

by sleepy in

jw
friends

lets invent some problem for jw's to see how far you can take their rules.

1.siamese twins get baptised.one now get disfellowshipped for apostacy.the witness one ,get counceled by the elders for mixing with apostates.eventualy gets disfellowshipped for too much assosiation with apostate other half.

2.man has sex change, but then becomes witness.is he a brother or a sister?

William Penwell

I think they the Siamese twins would be disfellowshiped for sleeping with a person of the same sex. Either that or one would have to get sex change which would lead you to problem 2. Too funny, just shows you how idiotic the borgs policies can be.

Will

31

Why? Why can't JW's ADMIT there's a problem?

by pomegranate in

jw
friends

some one asked: .

>>i don't understand.

i honestly do not understand how active jws can be presented with hundreds upon hundreds of cases that have occurred all over the world, and casually deny that there is any problem.<<.

William Penwell

and the same with jw, considering all the meetings, talks , mags etc that the avg jw has had in the 15-25yrs of being a jw all PREPARATION for the day that someone says something Negative about the org

JT

You hit the nail on the head and this is part of their cult mind conditioning that is going on. The more time and energy that you have invested the more you have to lose. So that is why the 40 year dub finds it harder to walk away. He or she would be saying the last 40 years of my life was a mistake, so it can't be wrong other wise I have wasted all those years of my life. It would be admitting they are a fool or stupid for following it and so they are happy just to keep up the charade. That is part of the conditioning process. I know it was hard for me to say I was fooled all those years and walk away.

Will.

10

Was it the bible or Jehovahs witnesses?

by sleepy in

jw
friends

was it the bible you started to doubt or jehovahs witnesses ?.

with me it was the bible which i could not reconcile with common sense , obviously from that i could see jw' s were certainly wrong.but many here still believe the bible.. why?if you can't trust a group of men who are alive today in brooklyn how can you trust people who are long dead , and have no chance of speaking to?.

it worries me that i believed in jehovahs witnesses.it worries me more that so many feel they broke free from brainwashing etc only to still believe the bible.. jehovahs witnesses are flawed because they try to follow the bible which in turn is a flawed book.

William Penwell

It was the JW and their reasoning about the bible that never made sense at first but over the years I can now see how flawed the bible is also. A lot of the stories on the old testament never made a lot of sense. Just a bunch of old fables and supersistions and we are supposed to look for guidance in this 21 century.

Will

8

How big is the JW org?

by RubyTuesday in

jw
friends

major denominational families of christianity

(this table does not include all christians.

these numbers are estimates, and are here primarily to assist in ranking branches by size, not to provide a definitive count of membership.

William Penwell

I think the key words here are, "Number of Adherents". Some at the WT using inflated figures to make them look bigger than they really are. They must be using the momerial attendance figures but the are been hypocritical because we have always been told a you can not claim to be a Jehovah's Witness unless you are active in the field service.

Will

20

Was CT Russell A Leprechaun?

by D wiltshire in

jw
friends

.

every time i see a picture of ct russell i think man he looks just like a leprechaun.. .

edited by - d wiltshire on 19 july 2002 1:54:20.

William Penwell

I found one, I think you are right. My God he is a Leprechaun and to think we followed him all those years and I wonder where his pot of gold maybe???

Edited by - William Penwell on 20 July 2002 0:55:17